1891 Argentine Mauser Serial Numbers
Best Answer: Well, if it's in it's original, unmodified condition with all matching serial numbers, it'll be worth more than a sporterized version. Your serial number indicates a manufacture date of 1894. Ludwig Loewe became DWM in 1896, and that is the last year that any guns carry the Loewe markings.
It is a Mauser Modelo Argentino 1891 serial # S 8952. Argentine Mauser Rifles 1871-1959. The Model 1888 had serial numbers stamped on the left side of. Anyone know what year my rifle may have been produced? Its made by Lowe, and its serial number is P49xx. I figured late 1894 to 1895.
The Argentine Mausers were imported in large numbers in the 1950s and 1990 and don't commend a great deal of collector value. They generally sell for around $250, but a pristine rifle with the crest intact, original cleaning rod, and bayonet could go for as much as $600. The good news is that because the value is not great, you have a decent shooter that you can fire without hurting its value.
A cartridge is a single round of ammunition, not part of a gun. I think you meant receiver. Speaking of cartridges, the Argentine Mauser was originally chambered for the 7.65x53 Mauser round, also known as the 7.65mm Argentine Mauser, or 7.65mm Belgian Mauser. They are all different designations for the same ammunition. The gun is on par power-wise with the 7.62x54R, 7.62x51 NATO,.303 British, and 7.7mm Jap.
If your gun is accurate, it would make a decent deer, elk, and bear hunting rifle. Edit: It's not C&R, Ludwig Loewe Mausers are all antiques. Mauser did not invent the brass cartridge or the bolt action rifle.
The Mauser rifle was an innovative design and the model '98 action still serves as the basis of most modern bolt actions, but Paul Mauser did not invent it. The first production bolt action rifle was designed by Johann Nikolaus von Dreyse in 1824. The model 1891 Agentine Mauser is actually a great weapon and had serveral advances for it's day and age.
It had a one piece bolt and was a very sturdy weapon. Due to it being built over 110 years ago it is considered a C&R by ATF so owning and selling is simple in all states. It was chambered in three different calibers but all had good balistics. These are good guns with a lot of history behind them. I recommend you do a search on it. I've been selling Mauser's for a long time and most people are ignorant to the fact that mauser invented the bolt action rifle and the brass cartridge. There would be no modern bolt action rifle with the mauser who started itall.
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Ive got my eye on an extremely well taken care of full size long rifle 1891 modelo argentino 7.65x53. At least 90% blueing, stock is beautiful with minor dings and look to be original (AR) shielded argentine stamps, everything matching, cleaning rod ect. Scrubbed crest of course, bore Bright shiny no pitting or any thing other than some dust. Couldn't do a crown test on it because the store obviously doesnt carry the argentine round being somewhat uncommon boolit.
But the rifling is strong all the way to the crown so looks good. Now to my questions. Quality wise, do these mausers compare to the 1909 or newer models? (i know there were advancements made on the newer models) what would a nice one go for in a store near you? And.
weird question. do any other mauser bayonets fit the 1891 argentine? (cheapest ones ive seen are 100$+ for the 1891) Any other comments or information about the rifle, owning, or buying the 1891 modelo argentino would be very appreciated (other than ammo price issues, or finding ammo which shouldn't be too hard). Mike, For $250, if the Model 1891 rifle is uncut (ie, not sporterized), and in nice condition with a clean bore, you got an excellent deal. Normal selling prices for ones with the scrubbed crests usually go for around $300-$500, and I've seen even higher prices asked (although rarely sold, unless the crest is intact).
Is yours a Lowe or a DWM marked rifle? I used to have a link to a chart that matched the serial number blocks to the year of manufacture, if I still have it I'll post it. Quality wise, you have nothing to worry about. Although it's succesor, the M1909 Argentine is built on the 98 action, and so is 'stronger', with the 7.65mm ammo, you won't have any issues at all with the M1891 action. It's very solid for that caliber, and should be a very accurate shooter.
1891 Argentine Mauser Serial Number Locations
Frankly, unless they've been trashed over the years, or have a shot-out bore, the Pre-WW1 made Mausers are almost always going to be of better quality, fit, and finish than most of the modern commercial rifles you'll see in any gun store today. Awesome thanks for the info, yes its an original Loewe modelo 1891 argentine, iam completely satisfied with my purchase, ill have to post some pics of it sometime, i pick it up after next weekend, and i have 60 rounds comming through the interwebs from aimsurplus, they sell the prvi partisan 180 grain soft point for 14-something per box o' 20. Going to try partisan out first because i was recommended it by a few shops. Now i just have to save another Benjamin or so for the short sword those Argentinian's call a bayonet. Thanks again for the price-guide, i still cant believe what a smoking deal i got, the mom n' pop shops still have what its got. Well i didnt wait to get any other feedback really, i HAD to buy this rifle too clean for such an old gun, ill try to get some pictures after i pick her up. 250$ out the door I have one a 'bubba'd' 1891 that was literally given to me.
I'll never pass up a free gun.;) They're great rifles and the round is a very good shooting round. Surplus ammo is still out there and there are some major manufacturers sell premium ammo for hunting; 7.65 Argentine is a great hunting round. I'd like to see some pics when you get a chance.
If it's all original and if you have one with the Argentine crest still stamped on the receiver, you stole it for $250!:eek. Most of them had their crests scrubbed when they were surplussed.
The Argentines supposedly had a law way back when that required it. I have a few bubbed 1891a, and a couple of Belgian 1889s, which are almost the same. Very well made. The round is pretty decent. The sights on yours may be set for the older 211 grain bullet instead of the 155 or 174 grain bullets used later on. It won't make that much difference unless you are trying to volley fire with a bunch of your friends at long distances though. You can normally use.311' diameter bullets for reloading.
If you get poor accuracy, you can slug your bore and see if.312' or.313' bullets might work better. But for the most part,.311' will give you good accuracy without the added expense of the odd-sized larger ones. In terms of power, it is about mid-way between.308 and.30-06. Nothing but quality and I would venture to say the 1891's were just a bit better in quality than the 1909's. But the difference would be very very slight. It's interesting to note that many of the rifles with the scrubbed crest's have matching bolts, where rifles with intact crests have mismatched bolts.
A few pic's of one of mine. Crest intact bolt mismatch. Sorry no pics yet, took her to the range twice now and shes only getting more accurate, i have a question though!!! I used 4-00 steel wool to clean it up, (was told to do so by cal, in cal customs fallbrook ca.) and use a form of lemon oil, i used formbys? Or something like that. So the steel wool did 2 things.
It cleaned up the dark spots were there was alot of sweaty hand use. Totally took the nice glossy finish off the areas were i wanted to clean up a bit so how can i get the guns shine to be even again?
40% of the gun still is glossy, i just tried to clean up maybe 50-60% of it leaving the wood dull and flat. I tried to use miniwax by hand buffing, drying and buffing again. Just got miniwax into the tiny grains of the wood, made it more dull. Cleaned the miniwax off and now im back at square 1. Do i have to totally refinish the gun now?
Or can i just get the dull parts to be shiny and full of depth again? And i dont really like the seed oil method, im impatient and that really light color makes it look too new:o. I used 4-00 steel wool to clean it up, (was told to do so by cal, in cal customs fallbrook ca.) and use a form of lemon oil, i used formbys? Or something like that. So the steel wool did 2 things. It cleaned up the dark spots were there was alot of sweaty hand use.
Totally took the nice glossy finish off the areas were i wanted to clean up a bit so how can i get the guns shine to be even again? 40% of the gun still is glossy, i just tried to clean up maybe 50-60% of it leaving the wood dull and flat. I tried to use miniwax by hand buffing, drying and buffing again. Just got miniwax into the tiny grains of the wood, made it more dull. Cleaned the miniwax off and now im back at square 1. Do i have to totally refinish the gun now? Or can i just get the dull parts to be shiny and full of depth again?
And i dont really like the seed oil method, im impatient and that really light color makes it look too new:o I dont really use steel wool unless there's rust. Brass wool is better, if you can find it. Honestly though, I use old soft-bristle tooth-brushes and CLP.
It has to be really bad for me to hit gun metal with steel wool. As for the wood, the most popular method it to 'sweat' out the old oil and replenish with linseed oil and beeswax. The orange oil and beeswax method is okay but it's still a bit aqueous.
You can use that orange oil/beeswax product if you like it but I would still coat the stock with a solid coat of beeswax afterwards.;). Sorry no pics yet, took her to the range twice now and shes only getting more accurate, i have a question though!!! I used 4-00 steel wool to clean it up, (was told to do so by cal, in cal customs fallbrook ca.) and use a form of lemon oil, i used formbys? Or something like that. So the steel wool did 2 things.
It cleaned up the dark spots were there was alot of sweaty hand use. Totally took the nice glossy finish off the areas were i wanted to clean up a bit so how can i get the guns shine to be even again? 40% of the gun still is glossy, i just tried to clean up maybe 50-60% of it leaving the wood dull and flat. I tried to use miniwax by hand buffing, drying and buffing again. Just got miniwax into the tiny grains of the wood, made it more dull. Cleaned the miniwax off and now im back at square 1.
Do i have to totally refinish the gun now? Or can i just get the dull parts to be shiny and full of depth again? And i dont really like the seed oil method, im impatient and that really light color makes it look too new:o ok, i'm assuming you're talking about the stock. This is what you need to do, get a can of denatured alcohl and your OOOO steel wool. Rub the stock with the alcohl and steel wool and wipe it down while it is still wet. Let dry for 24 hours and do this two or three more times. Then get a can of boiled linseed oil and your steel wool and rub the blo with the steel wool.
Wipe off the excess and let dry for 24 hours. Repete two or three more times. After final scrub and dry, hand rub the blo into the stock, you might want to wear rubber gloves for this. The blo will get warm from rubbing. Let dry for 24 hours, repete until you get the results you want. See this site for more details. Ok, i'm assuming you're talking about the stock.
This is what you need to do, get a can of denatured alcohl and your OOOO steel wool. Rub the stock with the alcohl and steel wool and wipe it down while it is still wet.
Let dry for 24 hours and do this two or three more times. Then get a can of boiled linseed oil and your steel wool and rub the blo with the steel wool. Wipe off the excess and let dry for 24 hours. Repete two or three more times. After final scrub and dry, hand rub the blo into the stock, you might want to wear rubber gloves for this. The blo will get warm from rubbing.
Let dry for 24 hours, repete until you get the results you want. See this site for more details. Yeah ive heard of this technique but doesnt this change the color of the wood?
1891 Argentine Mauser Serial Number Locations
It makes it much lighter and doesnt look original, didnt there have to be some sort of gloss coat or lacquer to be able to dull the finish like that?, i really would rather leave the gun the way it is and just get those few spots shiny again. Any suggestions? You guys got me inspired! Found a site with spare parts, and ordered some! Awesome!, i almost cried when i dulled some of my guns finish, i couldnt imagine damaging 100+ year old parts. So what do you guys think about basically bringing the stock to an equal finish? So dull/clean the rest of the wood with 0000 steel wool and formbys, and using 'miniwax wipe on poly' it looks like it makes a nice wet glossy coat on stained wood, here is the link were i saw the wipe on poly stuff because i love the color of the wood already, real rich red, i just want to make it glossy.
Ive got my eye on an extremely well taken care of full size long rifle 1891 modelo argentino 7.65x53. At least 90% blueing, stock is beautiful with minor dings and look to be original i used 4-00 steel wool to clean it up, (was told to do so by cal, in cal customs fallbrook ca.) and use a form of lemon oil, i used formbys?
Or something like that. So the steel wool did 2 things. It cleaned up the dark spots were there was alot of sweaty hand use.
Totally took the nice glossy finish off the areas were i wanted to clean up a bit so how can i get the guns shine to be even again? 40% of the gun still is glossy, i just tried to clean up maybe 50-60% of it leaving the wood dull and flat. I tried to use miniwax by hand buffing, drying and buffing again. Just got miniwax into the tiny grains of the wood, made it more dull. Cleaned the miniwax off and now im back at square 1. Do i have to totally refinish the gun now?
Or can i just get the dull parts to be shiny and full of depth again? And i dont really like the seed oil method, im impatient and that really light color makes it look too new:o so what do you guys think about basically bringing the stock to an equal finish? So dull/clean the rest of the wood with 0000 steel wool and formbys, and using 'miniwax wipe on poly' it looks like it makes a nice wet glossy coat on stained wood, here is the link were i saw the wipe on poly stuff because i love the color of the wood already, real rich red, i just want to make it glossy This is said with sorrow, not anger.:( Honestly, stop now and quit while you're behind. You took a stock that you said was 'beautiful with minor dings and look to be original' and now look what you have.
You should have just applied some linseed oil and left it alone. Any more attempts to undo the damage you have done are likely to make things worse.
Wipe-on polyurethane varnish on what was once a beautiful and original stock?:( Inexperience, impatience, and steel wool are a bad combination. Leave the dull spots on your stock as a reminder to inhibit you the next time you get the urge to use steel wool and Minwax poly on another antique stock. If you want to learn more about the subject so you won't make more mistakes, spend some time reading the threads in this forum When in doubt, if you really don't know what you are doing it is always best to leave things alone. Okay not quite sure what to say to that, thanks for depressing me. I dont see what linseed oil would have done to a finished stock??? It already had some sort of coat or polish because it was already glossy in the first place. The stock is fine just needs alittle shine.
Not like a ruined it, and i was told by a gunsmith that this was the trick. I didnt just pick up steel wool and started rubbing it on my gun, i used formbys too XD so if anyone has any actual advice i would appreciate it. Maybe pics would help? The dull spots actaully have a somewhat gloss too it aswell, it just seems like the steel wool roughed up the shine:(.
I'm not blowing things up, all we have to go on are your descriptions. 40% of the gun still is glossy, i just tried to clean up maybe 50-60% of it leaving the wood dull and flat. So 50-60% of the stock has lost the patina that took decades to develop, and is now dull and flat.
That's what I meant by erase. There are no quick fixes for the impatient. The least harmful thing you can do is put away or throw away your steel wool, get some raw linseed oil (not boiled linseed oil) sold as 'flax seed oil' at Wal-Mart, health food stores, and Walgreens, apply a thin coat to the whole stock, and repeat every few days. If you do that for a few months and are lucky you might start to undo the damage you have done. But again, you said you are impatient, so I don't know what else to tell you.
By the way, the reason steel wool is not good for wooden stocks is that it sheds small fibers that embed in the wood. If those steel fibers are exposed to moisture they corrode and stain the wood, causing little black specks all over the wood. Thanks for the info, your other posts just made me feel like i was being ridiculed, again i was told to do this by a certified gunsmith, though hes getting pretty old. So i took his advice, from what pictures ive seen on the internet this ones original finish is abnormally shiny, and on the top of the stock were it meets the metal parts is all black, unlike most of the guns ive seen, so could it have been refinished anyway? If you take some gun oil or lemon oil and put it on the places that got scuffed from the wool, it looks as if it were brand new. So all 'patina' aside:p if i can coat or polish or lacquer or spray for that matter to keep its same color and look im fine with it. Im not going to sell this gun so a complete re-finish wouldnt be out of the question, im sure it would look better than original but i like the way it looks now.
So if any one read all that, maybe ill find a digi camera that works and give some pics and see what you think i should do because as milsurp said iam inexperienced. Thanks for the info, your other posts just made me feel like i was being ridiculed, again i was told to do this by a certified gunsmith, though hes getting pretty old. So i took his advice, from what pictures ive seen on the internet this ones original finish is abnormally shiny, and on the top of the stock were it meets the metal parts is all black, unlike most of the guns ive seen, so could it have been refinished anyway? I wasn't trying to ridicule you, but there is an important lesson to learn.
We all had to learn it, so maybe someone reading this won't have to learn it the hard way the way you did. The lesson is this: when we first start out, in our enthusiasm and inexperience our first instinct is to tear everything down and 'clean it up' as you said you were trying to do. But if you don't really know what you are doing and/or get some bad advice, you can end up ruining something that can't be undone. For example, someone might get their hands on a bringback Type 99 Arisaka and in their inexperience and enthusiasm they start tearing it apart to 'clean it up'.
Some of the screws were hard to unscrew and the stock finish seemed a little rough, but after some struggling and buggered up screw heads (because they didn't buy an inexpensive gunsmith screwdriver set) they get it disassembled and steel wool the stock to a nice smooth finish. Only later do they learn that the screws were hard to unscrew because they were staked at the factory. Screws that are still staked show that the rifle has never been disassembled since it left the factory, and they add to the collector value of the rifle. Also, Type 99 Arisaka rifle stocks had a unique finish called urushi, an ancient and extremely durable type of Japanese lacquer.
It was used on samurai sword scabbards and is still used today to make beautiful lacquer-ware But when used on Arisaka stocks it had a characteristic rough texture. Steel wool or sandpaper alter the original finish and drastically lower the collector value of the rifle. Many Arisaka collectors (or Mauser collectors for that matter) have no interest in a rifle with a sanded stock. But unless you take the time to ask questions, do your homework, and learn these things you'll mess up by rushing in.
By rushing in with no knowledge or experience it is easy to quickly and irreversibly reduce the collector value of a rifle. If someone knows all that and decides to go ahead anyway that's their choice, but at least it is an informed choice, not the result of impatience and inexperience. Slow down, don't be impatient, learn about the thing you have before you tear it down and 'clean it up'. Calm down, don't be in such a hurry. Take some pictures and post them in some forums and get several opinions and suggestions, rather than relying on just one person who might or might not know what to do with an antique gun stock. You could have posted pictures at or or even here and you probably would have gotten better advice and avoided getting yourself in the pickle you're in now.
You're asking specific questions about whether your stock has been refinished and yet you have provided zero pictures. We're not clairvoyant. If you take some gun oil or lemon oil and put it on the places that got scuffed from the wool, it looks as if it were brand new. So all 'patina' aside:p if i can coat or polish or lacquer or spray for that matter to keep its same color and look im fine with it. Im not going to sell this gun so a complete re-finish wouldnt be out of the question, im sure it would look better than original but i like the way it looks now. So if any one read all that, maybe ill find a digi camera that works and give some pics and see what you think i should do because as milsurp said iam inexperienced. Formby's Lemon Oil is nothing but mineral oil with a lemon scent.
Neither it nor gun oil are appropriate for your stock. The most widely used finish for military rifles of that era was linseed oil. Your best hope to restore your stock is to use what was used originally.
Raw linseed oil (flax seed oil) is easy to apply and it will blend in with the original finish. Given enough coats and time in will start to repair what you have damaged. Using lacquer or polish because you are in a hurry to cover up/hide/reverse the damage you have done is only going to make things worse, as I said before. It would be better to do nothing if you aren't going to use raw linseed oil.
Thanks again for the advice, i guess ill probably just use the linseed oil over time. Cant get pictures on the computer dont have a decent digital camera on hand, but as ive been looking over the gun more im starting to notice its not that bad, only in sunlight and a real close look can you tell that its been steel wooled. Im not a collector nor do i wish to sell this rifle to a collector, this is one of my shooters and ill say one of my most accurate, so okay i see you say that any other gloss coat will ruin it or whatever, but if it comes out glossy its not ruined in my eyes, is this just related to the authenticity?
Or the actual finish of the gun, because in this day and age i find it very hard to believe i cant gloss coat a rifle. Thanks again for the advice, i guess ill probably just use the linseed oil over time. Cant get pictures on the computer dont have a decent digital camera on hand, but as ive been looking over the gun more im starting to notice its not that bad, only in sunlight and a real close look can you tell that its been steel wooled. Im not a collector nor do i wish to sell this rifle to a collector, this is one of my shooters and ill say one of my most accurate, so okay i see you say that any other gloss coat will ruin it or whatever, but if it comes out glossy its not ruined in my eyes, is this just related to the authenticity? Or the actual finish of the gun, because in this day and age i find it very hard to believe i cant gloss coat a rifle If you apply the raw linseed (flaxseed) oil as I recommended within a few weeks or months the gloss will start to come back.
And, as an added bonus it will oxidize to that dark reddish color you admire. In my experience raw linseed oil oxidizes much faster and redder than boiled linseed oil (BLO). It is also thinner and easier to apply than BLO. That's why I use raw linseed oil (flaxseed oil) over BLO. By the way, flaxseed oil is sold as liquid and as gel caps (flaxseed oil is sold as a dietary supplement. It is rich in omega-3 fatty acids).
You want the liquid, not the gel caps. An alternative is to use 100% pure tung oil Use only 100% pure tung oil, not 'tung oil finish' sold at hardware stores, it isn't the same thing. 100% pure tung oil produces a slightly more glossy finish than raw linseed oil and it dries much faster and it is much more moisture resistant than linseed oil. But it is more expensive, a little harder to find, a little harder to apply, and it doesn't redden as much as raw linseed oil. I use both raw linseed oil and 100% pure tung oil. If you apply the raw linseed (flaxseed) oil as I recommended within a few weeks or months the gloss will start to come back.
And, as an added bonus it will oxidize to that dark reddish color you admire. In my experience raw linseed oil oxidizes much faster and redder than boiled linseed oil (BLO). It is also thinner and easier to apply than BLO. That's why I use raw linseed oil (flaxseed oil) over BLO.
By the way, flaxseed oil is sold as liquid and as gel caps (flaxseed oil is sold as a dietary supplement. It is rich in omega-3 fatty acids). You want the liquid, not the gel caps. An alternative is to use 100% pure tung oil Use only 100% pure tung oil, not 'tung oil finish' sold at hardware stores, it isn't the same thing. 100% pure tung oil produces a slightly more glossy finish than raw linseed oil and it dries much faster and it is much more moisture resistant than linseed oil. But it is more expensive, a little harder to find, a little harder to apply, and it doesn't redden as much as raw linseed oil.
I use both raw linseed oil and 100% pure tung oil. Alright alright youve convinced me, seeing as i havent done enough damage to justify a complete re-finishing job, im going to get some raw linseed/flaxseed oil.
Just one more question. On the 1891's the wooden stock basically has 3 pieces, the top barrel handguard, the main large part of the stock and it has a under-barrel hand guard near the end of the barrel.
The top handguard does need to be oil treated again as well as the main part of the stock, except maybe the cheek rest/buttstock area. My point is only the mid/handgrip area were you hold the rifle is really dull, the buttstock and under barrel guard are untouched. So should i just coat the areas that need it or skip the front barrel guard?
Or over time will it become even-looking if i coat everything the same? And is it just apply the LO, wait 24 hours and repeat everyday? Thanks again for the help, Mike. It won't hurt the wood to treat all of it with raw linseed oil if it looks dry. That's what would have been done for routine maintenance. If the non-steel-wooled areas look OK you could apply the raw linseed oil just to the steel-wooled areas. One of the characteristics of raw linseed oil is that it takes a long time to dry.
Boiled linseed oil (BLO) is raw linseed oil with metallic driers added to make it dry faster, but because of that BLO doesn't oxidize to that nice reddish color as much or as quickly as raw linseed oil does. Apply a thin coat of raw linseed oil (I use my bare hands) and then set it aside to dry. Check it in a few days and it will probably be slightly wet/sticky. When it seems mostly dry coat it again and repeat. Use thin coats so it dries more quickly.
Wow, great thread. Thanks for the wealth of info on the '91. I bought one at a gun shop for the grand price of $49.00 out the door, was 20 years now.
Great condition, except someone tried to grind off the crest. I had to finish the job and re-blue it, it came out really good, still looks good today. So its not in its original state. The stock is blond and in good condition.
There's no rust anywhere on it.I keep it cleaned and oiled. I was lucky to find bayonets for it, think I paid $19 for it.well that's what the wifey says. I do know that the Swiss Mauser bayonet fits, and not sure if there are others. Soon as I get a chance, I'm gonna pull her out of the safe (yes she's a safe queen), and check the #'s on it. Mauser actions are great, very strong and reliable.
Great advice from Milsurp, thanks for all that input.It's guys like you that help out the newbies that make Calguns a great place to be. Wow, great thread. Thanks for the wealth of info on the '91.
I bought one at a gun shop for the grand price of $49.00 out the door, was 20 years now. Great condition, except someone tried to grind off the crest. I had to finish the job and re-blue it, it came out really good, still looks good today. So its not in its original state. The stock is blond and in good condition.
There's no rust anywhere on it.I keep it cleaned and oiled. I was lucky to find bayonets for it, think I paid $19 for it.well that's what the wifey says, and they never forget anything. I do know that the Swiss Mauser bayonet fits, and not sure if there are others. Soon as I get a chance, I'm gonna pull her out of the safe (yes, she's a safe queen), and check the #'s on it. Mauser actions are great, very strong and reliable.
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Great advice/link from Milsurp, thanks for all that input.It's guys like you that help out the newbies with great advice and suggestions, it helps make Calguns the best forum to belong too.